cognizant dissident

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Posts by cognizant dissident

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  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

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  cognizant dissident

  Can you be more specific, Moshe? Which story and which question are you referring to? Life being a game? Or journey-on's earlier question about duality and ego and whether they are "meant to be"? Also, why is the question flawed? Please give some examples. Cog
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  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

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  cognizant dissident

  Hey nvrgnbk
  

  I'm going to play my own devil's advocate here and answer my own question with a story my counselor told me when I asked him "what's the point of it all, what does anything matter?"

  There was a man walking on the beach and he came upon an old man picking up washed-up starfish that were drying up and dying. He was throwing them back into the water. The young man asked the old man, "why are you bothering with that? There are thousands of them. You can't possibly throw them all back in. What's the point? What does it matter in the end?" The old man picked up another starfish and threw it in the water. "It matters to that one." he said.

  My counselor is also an atheist, who meditates and studies buddhist philosophy. He says his life practice, what gives his life right now meaning and makes it worthwhile, is that he helps to relieve the suffering of others right now, in whatever way he can, volunteering etc. I asked him what did it matter in the long run, all the people you help are just going to die anyway, eventually, and a million more will pop up to replace them. He said it didn't matter in the long run, but it matters right now to the person you are with. Then he told me that story.

  I guess the point of it all, is just to do whatever one can, within one's own sphere of influence, whatever that may be, to try to relieve one's own suffering and the suffering of others. However, while I "know" that is true, and do try to do that whenever I can, I still often have these feelings of futility and existential angst. I probably am a nicer person now and help more people now than I ever did as a JW. But I felt better as a JW because I was happy in my delusion that I was going to live forever and God was going to make the world all better some day. Somedays, I just think reality kind of sucks and understand why most people in the world choose belief in a Creator. Because it feels better!

  Anybody else ever feel like that? Come on, I know it can't be just me and nvrgnbck. Any of you other atheists out there willing to "confess" feelings of futility?

  Cog
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  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

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  cognizant dissident

  Let me describe human life with all its social, economical, political, ideological, emotional aspects as a game. If you (as a "separate self," fictional as this is) are neither interested in winning nor afraid of losing, because you always think (and rightly so!) that "it's just a game," you will soon get bored and ruin the fun of it for yourself and others. Otoh, if you are paralysed with fear of losing, or if your desire to win otherwise spoils the game, you will need to be reminded that "it's just a game". But don't jump to the conclusion that every player, always, needs the same reminder.

  Wow, Narkissos, you have just summed up the exact way I have been feeling for the last few months. I've spent the last year and a half meditating, trying to find awareness of the true nature of reality. In a way, this has been really great because I no longer get paralysed with fear of losing things that don't really matter much (like family and old friends that never cared as much about me as I did them). I seem to have lost my ego drive to win the "game", I am no longer yanked around on an emotional rollercoaster ride due to believing in other people's social, economical, political, or religious ideologies. That is all great and a welcome relief. For the first time in 10 years, I have been able to give up anti-depresssants and anti-anxiety medication. I credit meditation with that. Now, though, I feel I am lacking in motivation to accomplish anything. I've lost the urgency, "the sky is falling" mentality of JW's and Armageddon looming over my head. I DO feel bored and want to ruin the fun of the game for others! (My apologies to Journey-on)

  I have no desire to get "back in the game" and fully engage with life either. What's the point? It almost feels like depression but not quite. More like I see clearly and calmly and realize that the end of the game is the same no matter how we play it, so what's the point in worrying about anything or even caring about anything overly much? Have you read "Finite and Infinite Games: A vision of life as play and possibility" by James P Carse? Much of what you were just saying reminded me of this book given to me by my counselor/teacher.

  Any of you wise people out there got any suggestions for curing this kind of low grade melancholy and lack of ambition?

  Cog
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  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

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  cognizant dissident

  Perhaps, it's because that is the way we were created. Perhaps this is the program that drives us forward. We DO worry about it. We DO seek greater meaning than what is evidenced.

  Albert Einstein said it this way:

  "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the source of all true art and all science. He to whom this emotion is a stranger, who can no longer pause to wonder and stand rapt in awe, is as good as dead: his eyes are closed."

  Yes, this does appear to be a "program" that drives many of us forward, but was it implanted by a Creator? Is it inherent in our biological nature? I was reading some pshychology articles about feral children last night. One girl was left to grow up in the dog kennel from babyhood. She exhibited all the characteristics of dogs. She could communicate with them by barking and howling, was more comfortable sleeping curled up like a dog and walking on all fours than upright. She never did learn human language and human characteristics very well so that she could fit in like a normal human. She was always much more comfortable just "being" in nature with the dogs and animals.

  I use this example to illustrate just how much our "programming" is learned in very early childhood before we are even consciously aware of it. Yes we do worry, and we do seek greater meaning. I submit that we were taught to do this from early childhood when we were taught stories about God and given their meanings and this meaning making continues all throughout life. Originally, this could have developed as a survival mechanism as understanding the meaning of "signs" around us could often cause us to take action to avoid danger. However, being aware of this programming, means that we also have a choice to "deprogram" or "switch the program" or "just turn the program OFF". We can choose to worry or not to worry. We can choose to search for extra meaning or just accept what is.

  This does not mean that we must lose our exploratory natures or that we cannot wonder or stand rapt in awe of what is all around us. Or, that we cannot feel emotion and passion for the beauty and ugliness of life all around us. Rather, we stand in awe and wonder of what we are experiencing, we feel and experience the emotions invoked, but we do not add a story surrounding it. We may even ask, why or how did this happen or how did we come to be, as all great scientists and philosophers have. However, in formulating those questions, we have taken ourselves out of the realm of direct experience and into the realm of hypothesis, stories, beliefs etc. That is where we often get into trouble because then we can become dogmatic that our hypothesis, story, or belief, is the correct one without having gathered the necessary evidence to come to such a conclusion. Ego becomes involved. Pre-programmed responses may come into play. We confuse "believing" with "knowing" through experience. I saw a bumper sticker once that summed it up nicely. It said, "don't believe everything you think".

  What may have started out as an evolutionary biological survival mechanism (the ability to make meanings or attach meanings to experience) may actually end up being the downfall of our entire species. For instance, people are blowing themselves and others up all over the planet because of their attachment to their story, their belief, about the Creator and how we got here as being the "right" one. People are continuing to poison their own envirmonment and damage eco-systems in the mistaken belief that they can ignore "evidence/reality" of our interdependence with all living organisms and continue to believe the corporate programming that there is no limit to what they can have/achieve at the expense of the eco-system they live in.

  Oh well, I will get off my soapbox now!

  Cog
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  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  cognizant dissident

  Cognizant Dissident, I really enjoyed your post. Thanks poppers, I always enjoy your posts also, especially the one on meditation. I didn't comment on it because you already put everything so eloquently, I didn't see any point in adding to it. Not that I have much to add, I am just a curious beginner on this journey to awareness myself. Cog
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  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  cognizant dissident

  Maybe it's my JW upbringing and my struggle to release the shackles of that indoctrination, but it is deeply ingrained in my psyche to believe in a creator. I no longer look at Him as "a big guy in the sky watching over all of us and keeping a record of our good deeds and bad deeds", however, I now perceive of this creator as pure Spirit (no "thing") who awakened to His own consciousness and self awareness as potential to create.

  Hey, no worries, Journey-on. We have all, JW's and 90% of the world population, been indoctrinated or conditioned to believe in a Creator since childhood. I know the thoughts and stories fed to my mind since childhood by my ancestors. Now, I ask myself what evidence do I perceive or experience that this is real/true? For the moment, I am an atheist who is awaiting futher evidence that God exists. I would like for there to be a Creator, a Source, a greater meaning, an afterlife, heaven, Nirvanna, whatever. (Not too fond of hell) I don't want to be compost when I die anymore than the next person! I just see no evidence for any of those things. The universe also doesn't seem too concerned about what I would like. Of course, I acknowledge, just because I can't see evidence doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means I have not experienced its existence. We do know that all molecules that make up everything in this earth are tied together by some sort of energy. We are all interconnected with this energy. What the Source of that energy is, if indeed there is one specific Source is still as yet unknown. The greatest minds on earth have not been able to figure it out yet, and since I'm not one of them, why should I worry about it? Still, I notice the human tendency to want to give said Source a capital letter, or a consciousness, or a personality, or a gender (HIS). Is this tendency ego? Delusion? Wishful thinking? Just be aware of it. Where does urge to explain and to give greater meaning than is evidenced, come from?

  Cog
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  61

  Hello.

  by emilyblue in

  1. social
  2. relationships

  i posted here a couple of months ago, or less.

  my home computer crashed and they cracked down on messageboard sites at my work, so the work laptop was out.

  plus, i just felt emotionally burned out and just didn't want to think about it anymore.

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  cognizant dissident

  Where do I start?

  First of all, what is wrong with poo jokes? This guy is one uptight ass!

  Secondly, he invited you to dinner and then made you feel guilty about how much your food and drink cost? If any other person ever did this to you, you would probably never go out with them ever again! At least I hope you wouldn't!

  Third, he guesses it will be alright if he stays with you as long as you agree to obey his long list of do's and don'ts for the rest of your life! Some deal for you.

  You feel "honored" that he invited you to the assembly? The witnesses spend their entire lives trying to find gullible, controllable people to come to their assemblies. They live for that! They all practically beg people to come. And then when they get there they tell them why they are not really good enough to belong to the JW's. Where do you think your boyfriend learned this behaviour from?

  Lastly, I don't even think it is so much a JW thing. Even by JW standards (which are pretty low due to a shortage of men) this guy is a LOSER! Do you know how many young, gorgeous, devout, JW girls there are just dying to get married? Even none of them want him! This guy cannot take responsibility and get control over his own screwed up marriages and finances and religious wishy-washyness. So, he is going to do the next best thing. Get control over you. Then he won't have to look at himself. Everything will always be your fault! This situation is never going to end. Unless you end it. Why would he end it? He's gets his way in everything and what do you get?

  I challenge you to name ONE thing or part of his personality that you LOVE. Be specific. Even write it down. After you stare at the blank page for a few hours, pack your bags and RUN!!!

  If you are still with this guy after all the clear messages you have got from EVERYONE, then I think you should seriously consider counseling, and I don't mean relationship counseling. I mean personal counseling. To try to find out what it is about yourself that attracts you to emotionally abusive people like him in spite of every one's well-meaning advice to the contrary.

  Let us know what you eventually do.

  Cog
• 
  161

  What if you're missing the purpose?

  by journey-on in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self?

  what if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  the below is a short story sent to me by a friend and it is an example of what i'm inferring.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  cognizant dissident

  For those of you who espouse the philosophy that one needs to discard who we "think" we are and embrace the "reality" of who we really are, what if, there is a Divine purpose to our miniscule existence in the here and now and that purpose is to experience the pull of opposite forces (duality), and you are missing it by not allowing yourself to experience the ego self? What if you are missing the whole purpose of this pull of pain and joy by trying to suppress it or place yourself outside of it?

  Part of "the reality of who we really are" is the ability we have to experience the pull of opposite forces/duality and form ego identities surrounding them. I think if you are actively trying to suppress "duality" or your "ego identities" than you are missing the point. The point is not to suppress or disallow those things. It is simply to become aware that they exist. Notice the dualities in nature and in life and in other peoples thoughts and actions. Notice and be aware of our own. As we become more aware of them we can see how they arise and dissipate often within our own minds. Perhaps they were "real" in that moment, but as soon as the moment is passed they are no longer "real" they are just memory. Also, with our own ego identities, we can become aware of their existence, how and why we created them in our own minds, what purpose they served, and question if they still continue to serve a useful purpose. We can never live in a world without duality or dispense with our own ego identities once and for all. They are part of what our brain does perhaps as a survival mechanism. But as we become aware of how our own minds create dualities and ego, then we realize we don't have to let them run our lives. They shrink from monsters and demons that drive us to "little schmoos" as one teacher put it.

  As far as it being a "Divine purpose" to experience all of this, I think that is "mind" layering on an extra meaning. It is "ego" which cannot accept that this "miniscule existence" is the true nature, is "reality". Ego looks for a greater meaning to our existence, a greater purpose than what we are experiencing right now. Perhaps there is no purpose? Perhaps there is only present experience? We can accept or reject this explanation but that will not really change the reality of it. It will just mean that we miss what "is" because our brain is busy searching for greater meaning or purpose.

  Cog (I struggle a lot with this concept too, I love to look for the greater meaning in everything and I have trouble accepting that there may not be one. I think this is especially difficult for people from a religious background)
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  19

  On fading

  by lola28 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so i was thinking about this today and wanted to see what you guys think about fading?

  for a long time i thought that this was the way to go especially if you wanted to maintain certain relationships be it with family or friends but lately i'm not so sure that fading is the best way to go and here is why.. the stress of having to go to meetings is some times overwhelmingthe amount of time you waste going to meetings when you no longer believe is time you will never get back, time that could have been spent doing something that you really do love, life is short why waste it in the hall?

  the end results are the same if you are dfed, daed or fade.

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  cognizant dissident

  Those are all great points Lola. A very accurate assessment. Anybody care to tackles the pros of fading instead of DA'ing? Cog
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  39

  Why did you get married?

  by pratt1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  as a young dub in the 80's me along with many of my friends got married, either in our teens or early 20's.. in my area, if you were over 25 and not married, it was percieved that something was wrong with you or you were probably engaging in sex with a "worldly" person.. by why did so many of us feel the need to get married so young?.

  i believe it was because of one of three reasons.. 1. you wanted to get out of your parets home.. 2. you had already gone "too far" with you girlfriend or boyfriend.. 3. you were just an average normal teenager and you knew this was the only way you could legally have sex.. .

  was this true in your area?.

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  cognizant dissident

  He was horny and I said yes! Oh, yeah, and I was an idiot!

  Now, 25 years later, I am horny and I think he is an idiot! Talk about your role reversal!

  Cog